Shelter dev. update11/11/09

I will not be lamenting real-life issues that continuously impede progress of a hobby project such as Shelter. Nobody wants to hear that.

Another consideration - major "OMG we just made an awesome thing and it is awesome" updates are a rarity in such a complex project. So, I'll be focusing on what has been done every week. No matter how insignificant, no matter how technical it may seem, it is all part of a larger plan.

___

So, this week, I quickly realized that the decision to merge Player's reputation with in-game factions into Achievements was a mistake. It's rather stupid to have a "Reputation with Robotic Frogs" range from -5 to 5, and it also confuses the future scripting, where on the "Evil" scale -5 is supposed to be greater than -4, which is at odds with math's definition of "GREATER".

So, Player's reputation has been moved back into Faction Relation Matrix. Faction Relation Matrix used to be trinary - containing values of  F_NEUTRAL, F_HOSTILE and F_FRIENDLY. It will remain this way for inter-faction relations, which, for the sake of sanity, will remain very clear-cut.

When it comes to relations between factions F_PLAYER<-->F_ANY_OTHER_FACTION, however, the stored value is no longer trinary. It is a negative or positive number, and it affects Reputation Achievements.

There are now TWO Master branches of Reputation Achievements for each Faction. "Friend" and "Enemy". They both rise in levels starting from 1, according to reputation value tiers defined for each.

This makes it more intuitive. A "(2) Greater Enemy" of faction F_ROBOTICFROGS is Higher in level of that Master Achievement than merely "(1) So-so Enemy", just like a "(2) Greater Friend" is - in relation to its own Master Achievement branch.

___

This week, I also implemented proper support of Achievement-locked dialogue options. These options existed for a year, however we lacked the tools to automate their use. Much of Shelter relies on an external scripting language, which we would've named ShelterScript if it wasn't for unfortunate alliteration. However, coding in this language is as much of a bitch as coding inside Shelter itself.  This is why making external tools was mandatory.

Now the tools and Shelter are in sync, and the functionality is as follows:

Any line that you say to an NPC, including those that invite us into quest description, can be locked into Achievement requirements.

For example, the NPC says: "I am so bored here, I want to see the world !", - an opening to them becoming your party member.
One of your dialogue options would say "I will show you the world - shining, shimmering, splendid !", and it would be in red. Underneath it you will see "Achievement required: Explorer: Visited 5 or more settlements".

If you click on it despite it being red, you will get a blow-off, such as "You ain't from 'round here, I dun' trust ya 'nuff. Ahyuck burp".

Reputation Achievements can be used in similar manner to control which quests are accessible based on how much the Faction trusts you at a given moment.

This is explicitly designed to avoid the Trustworthy Idiot NPC Syndrome (TINS) where you come into a new town, nobody knows you, yet they will go "Psst... hey kid, wanna blow up a nuclear bomb ? We've just met, but something tells me you're more trustworthy than any of these other people I've known my whole life".

It is highly unnatural and it breaks immersion. On a related note, when you initiate dialogue with people, they will rarely, if ever,go "Greetings, traveler, and welcome to our glorious village of Sandy Shades !". In many cases they will ignore you until you initiate dialogue - from whichever angle your current Achievements may allow you to do so.

Also, killing someone of a faction reduces your reputation with them. A few weeks ago the uncomfortable variable has been introduced which measures an individual's "worth" with a given faction, in terms of reputation you lose after killing them.

What is the true measure of a man ? I don't know... but right now it's 50 points.

 

 
Comments (9)
Witness
9 Thursday, 26 November 2009 01:37
adrian
The witness idea sounds epic. Nothing worse than killing an NPC with no witnesses only to have everyone in the game world suddenly start treating you like a murderer.
witness system
8 Monday, 16 November 2009 07:45
shihonage
The question of course being, is it worth my time in terms of programming to create an intricate system, which, in the long run, won't work any better or more reliably than a cheaper, faster version of itself.

Since "home" and "leader" cannot be constant variables in Shelter, the AI will have to determine those for itself. Thats a lot of shit to deal with while there's a zillion other systems that need working on inside the engine.

We'll see.
So...
7 Sunday, 15 November 2009 10:47
Deele
So, you should make a mode for AI, to gossip to other people, run to nearest people in panic, run away no mtter where, travel to other city/settlement, go home, go to clan leader, etc...
That makes witness system possible.
Jobs
6 Sunday, 15 November 2009 02:20
shihonage
Right now they have basic behavior modes, such as Guard (person) and Patrol. More extensive modes need to be added.
A question
5 Saturday, 14 November 2009 14:35
Deele
What system do you use, to make AI actors do "everyday" jobs? Or they are not doing anything "everyday"?
Actually...
4 Saturday, 14 November 2009 09:12
shihonage
Actually I do like the witness idea better. It's going to be programmatically complex, because "home" of a specific faction is where most of them are, and that is not a fixed location like in other RPGs. In Shelter, we should be able to displace and migrate whole towns depending on world events.

But the witness idea plays well into the mechanism of having all the people in the giant world. It's part of it, and the giant world needs to be exploited more in this faction. People carrying cargo, bounty hunters searching for people, etc.
Law and Order stuff
3 Saturday, 14 November 2009 00:21
shihonage
This is a very interesting suggestion Deele, and we've been considering this approach among several others. The problem we'd have to solve with this one is balancing the game so that you can't always finish off every single witness. That, and witnesses getting stuck somewhere due to pathfinding may make things too easy for player.

We have another approach with a required number of automatic same-faction witnesses and player character's "dark conscience" growing when there aren't. The "dark conscience" parameter would affect dialogue with others - more "evil" characters would be forthcoming, while do-gooders would lock you out of some things.

Sure, you will be able to kill people in secret, but there's one witness you can't eliminate - yourself.
Re: Law and Order
2 Saturday, 14 November 2009 00:00
FirstOfficer
We have thought a lot about how information would spread through the game world. We considered various ways to move around "evidence" of a particular event, using NPC meetings. We may implement something along those lines a bit later; for now, we are assuming that the "all seeing eye" is, indeed, out there.
Law and Order
1 Thursday, 12 November 2009 17:43
Deele
Have you thought about that unnatural "all seeing eye", which sees every thing you have done, which is pretty stupid? To make this game more natural, you should consider thinking about alternative way.
For example, killing a man of some Serious gang, would lead to rapid reputation decrease and maybe, gang leader would send some men, to hunt you down or take you to his leader, to make negotiations about possibilities to get back good reputation.
More, you should make a "witness system" that would make any witness of your murder, depending of their bravery or etc, would make him run away to his house/settlement, run to nearest other human, to tell what he have seen, spreading "witness seen crime" to spread to those people. If an event of your crime, killing one of gang member, comes to gang leader, that would initiate my previously told event, when gang leader sends men to hunt you down... So, if you kill all witneses, noone will ever know about your crime.
Same as non-fatal-combat situation, would make victim a witness of your crime, so, when he wakes up or any other event that allows him to go away, he would try to spreat a note about your crime, trying to reach gang leader....
Additionally, you could make an event of anyone finding a body making a word spear about gang member dead that would call an event for gang leader to intitiate questioning about whoever might be a witness or killer.
AND, =D you could make a good use from some randomly found cemicals, making possible to get rid of body, or other methods for that, maybe burning a body with some molotov.
I could give more ideas, but I will wait for proper topic to come up :)

Collaborate

We are currently looking for 3D modelers, animators, as well as texture and 2D artists. Click here for details!

Forum

You can visit our hosted forums at
"No Mutants Allowed"

No Mutants Allowed

Shout Box

Latest Message: 9 hours, 54 minutes ago
  • shihonage : Thanks sir :)
  • HoboWithAGlo : Well, seeing as the last message was over 3 months ago, I'd be glad to update this message box. Keep up the work guys.
  • MirzaGhalib : I wish I had some of the skills you guys need to work on this game!
  • Deele : this is gonna be big!
  • Prowokator : Good to hear things are moving forward! I'll be watching you :)
  • Deele : Yep, a new video! Looks promising ;)
  • adrianadrian : any news??
  • Deele : I think, SVG has no System Analyst, for this project... That is why, everyting is moving so slow... :P
  • adrianadrian : looking good. very keen on this project
  • FirstOfficer : Still working on the alpha... stay tuned...
  • ChaosV49 : Well, well well......
  • FirstOfficer : We're working, thanks for checking up on us... :)
  • Deele : I hope, you guys are still at work, cause I cant wait for alpha version, to come avilable for some select people =]
  • ChaosV49 : Well the thing is : The modellers (including me) have yet to do many models. I have done some but not at the stage for game implementation. It would be weird to release a demo full of Fallout tactics graphics.
  • Mr. T : I realy hope there coming close to the demo fore the game. Realy lookes nice. Hope the combat remanes tornbasede
  • Deele : Yeah, kinda' silent here :(
  • ChaosV49 : *Echo* Hello? *Echo*
  • dimsuz : Oki! :-)
  • FirstOfficer : Dimsuz - I got your e-mail; will respond shortly. Thanks Deele!
  • Deele : I would suggest you yo write and e-mail to help@secondvarietygames.com

Only registered users are allowed to post